<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think what he actually said was that it was an insult to say that what VC plays is strictly authentic trad-jazz-bop [slightly different]; but i get your meaning anyway... [img]wink.gif[/img]when SDK said Vinnie was an insult to jazz and bebop playing
I also just wanted to clarify that I wasn't saying that BR couldn't handle things in the funk idiom either; I've heard him do some damage [even if it did still have his trademark slight 'BB feel' to it [img]wink.gif[/img] ]. But it was def FAR 'from s*ckage'... ;-) [img]cool.gif[/img]
Peace.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ June 09, 2005 10:03 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">......can someone please wake me up when this is over? ........ [img]graemlins/sleepy.gif[/img]Where do you think Buddy would "rank" today if he were alive and in his prime? Take for granted that the guys of today would already have what they have.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you're referring to the natural evolution of music, I agree. If you're saying that VC and DW are light years ahead of Buddy as musicians, I think you're way off. I'll repeat what I said before - since you didn't address it, I don't know if you actually read it before you posted - Buddy Rich was better, within his genre, than any other drummer has since been at their's. And neither VC nor DW are the musician that BR was. JMHO.Originally posted by got_a_match_grip?:
Another beat thread.
. . . Sorry, but my personal opin is, there is no comparison overall between BR & say VC & DW. Those last 2 guys are light years beyond MOST any drummer out today...just the obvious facts, man. Fanboy BS not even an issue; just outright facility & ideas. Just the natural state of the evolutionary time frame of things. . . .
You think there's a pianist out there with better facility that Vladamir Horowitz? Who, where? There's a trumpet player out there with better facility than Harry James (the Buddy Rich of the Trumpet)? Not a chance. And there is no drummer out there with more facility than BR.
Miles Davis once said that no trumpeter has played anything that Louis Armstrong hasn't already played. The same goes for Buddy. There IS a comparison between BR, VC and DW, and it weighs favorably to BR. JMHO.
[img]biggrin.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ June 09, 2005 10:07 PM: Message edited by: Henry II ]</font>
Respectfully...I disagree, in general, but I clarified in my first post. No biggie. But I didn't nec say they were light years ahead of Buddy as musicians, either...just overall contemporary playing FACILITY.
It is MO that VC & DW play things on a higher plane than BR. Both VC & DW can handle a BB gig [altho maybe not as 'authentic' in some folks' opin], but BR cannot play what those 2 are capable of in an all-out fusion fest. NO WAY [Could you see BR in Zappa or CCEB?...well, maybe he could handle it; but not like VC or DW did/do] But Vin & Dave can do the GRP BB All-Stars gig all day long, no prob]. Just being realistic, here.
Buddy was very strictly rudimentally based, & he was indeed great at it; snare, toms, & kick [similar to Boomer in fusion]; wheras VC & DW are a little more 3 & 4 dimensional with their applications, & the phrasing is really far advanced, -based on their obvious BR [as well as other greats] influence. [All JMHO. ;c)]
I'll just say, BR could never smoke the tune Against the Clock or that vid-clip of the Potato 5-vamp like Vinnie, & he couldn't've nailed CCEB or CCAB-Alive discs like Dave. But they did the two GRP BB AS's discs...AND were asked to do the BRMSC2, by all involved, INCLUDING Kathy R [she evidently felt they were worthy of a BB salute with Buddy's own band]...
This is in NO way a slam on BR, however. As I said, naturally this is going to occur with time & the evolution of the instrument's concepts.
But I'm REALLY w DAZZ on this one. Ho hum. [img]wink.gif[/img]
Guess THAT didn't come out in my first post. [img]graemlins/thinking.gif[/img]
It ain't a competition... ;cp
But I WILL make the comparison that BR was the VC/DW of HIS generation [or better, VC/DW may be the "Buddy's" of ours]...but he's NOT VC or DW. ;-)
But BR's authoritative BB playg is just as viable now as it ever was, & a mighty yardstick to boot. Just a thought.
Why am I still in here... ;c)
[...At least I didn't log on & just say, "are you really being serious/shi**ing me?"] ;-p
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ June 10, 2005 12:39 AM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>
Where would Buddy rank compared to other drummers if he were alive.... hrm...
I know Virgil and Lang would be neck and neck for the gold, but it'd be a close call between Vinnie, Weckl, and Buddy -- they're all relatively short.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ June 09, 2005 10:59 PM: Message edited by: Manos ]</font>
I don't agree about Buddy, sorry.
Nothing he did really says anything to me... nothing like what Tony did, Tony had a musical mind.
Just my opinion... Buddy doesn't blow my skirt up.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">GAMG, You and I will NEVER agree on this one.Originally posted by got_a_match_grip?:
Respectfully...I disagree, in general, but I clarified in my first post. No biggie. But I didn't nec say they were light years ahead of Buddy as musicians, either...just overall contemporary playing FACILITY.
It is MO that VC & DW play things on a higher plane than BR. Both VC & DW can handle a BB gig [altho maybe not as 'authentic' in some folks' opin], but BR cannot play what those 2 are capable of in an all-out fusion fest. NO WAY [Could you see BR in Zappa or CCEB?...well, maybe he could handle it; but not like VC or DW did/do] But Vin & Dave can do the GRP BB All-Stars gig all day long, no prob]. Just being realistic, here.
Buddy was very strictly rudimentally based, & he was indeed great at it; snare, toms, & kick [similar to Boomer in fusion]; wheras VC & DW are a little more 3 & 4 dimensional with their applications, & the phrasing is really far advanced, -based on their obvious BR [as well as other greats] influence. [All JMHO. ;c)]
I'll just say, BR could never smoke the tune Against the Clock or that vid-clip of the Potato 5-vamp like Vinnie, & he couldn't've nailed CCEB or CCAB-Alive discs like Dave. But they did the two GRP BB AS's discs...AND were asked to do the BRMSC2, by all involved, INCLUDING Kathy R [she evidently felt they were worthy of a BB salute with Buddy's own band]...
This is in NO way a slam on BR, however. As I said, naturally this is going to occur with time & the evolution of the instrument's concepts.
But I'm REALLY w DAZZ on this one. Ho hum. [img]wink.gif[/img]
Guess THAT didn't come out in my first post. [img]graemlins/thinking.gif[/img]
It ain't a competition... ;cp
But I WILL make the comparison that BR was the VC/DW of HIS generation [or better, VC/DW may be the "Buddy's" of ours]...but he's NOT VC or DW. ;-)
But BR's authoritative BB playg is just as viable now as it ever was, & a mighty yardstick to boot. Just a thought.
Why am I still in here... ;c)
[...At least I didn't log on & just say, "are you really being serious/shi**ing me?"] ;-p
<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ June 10, 2005 12:39 AM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font></font>
[img]graemlins/kiss.gif[/img]
i'm 110% with fuse (change your name back!). i think musically all three are up there. that's not something you can really compare for guys at that level. buddy was just as musical with his drumming as vc and dw are with theirs. i also think buddy had the facility that vc and dw have today. if you're talking about rudimental vocab, speed, or endurance... all three are 2nd to none. BUT when it comes to phrasing and groupings, VC is just on another universe. virgil is pretty close but when i hear vinnie playing that stuff on "shut up and play yer guitr" when he was in his mid 20's... it is untouchable. God decided to give that gift to one person and he chose vinnie. understanding complex phrasing is one thing but to be able to play it with feel AND in the pocket, coming out right smack on the one is just not natural.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ June 10, 2005 01:03 PM: Message edited by: shedder ]</font>
"...What shed sed!"
THAT is exactly what i meant.
Buddy indeed had the facility to be able to do it, but he's just not in VC or DW's league. NO way. Sowwy. It's obvious to me, anyway. [img]graemlins/idea.gif[/img] ;-)
But here i am again, going down the slippery slope to doing exactly what i don't believe in, "x vs. x"...
But these endless comparing threads tire me out [I've been here for several years].
Oh well, we agree to disagree, then. /;-)
Now just remember, that is NOT saying that I don't LOVE BR & don't think he was a total bad-a**; he was [& IS] one incredible musician...& so was Payne etc, & there were others like that who were the most formidable. But there's only ONE VC & DW. Period. WAY beyond the pale. When it comes to b*lls-all modern phrasing & rhythmic vocab, VC & DW are 2nd to NONE. [Virg is of course in there in the prog-rock-fusion categ, but he don't play swing-bop-jazz [img]tongue.gif[/img] ]
I'm beating the redundant horse here again...woo-HOO!
...Here's a [img]graemlins/boy_hug.gif[/img] to go with that [img]graemlins/kiss.gif[/img] /;-p
Cheers. [img]graemlins/party.gif[/img]
[Dazz = me = [img]graemlins/sleepy.gif[/img] ] /;-p
Now if you'll kindly excruse me, I have to go & do more imporatnt things...like go beat another thread over the head to death [& then go play a bit]... ;-p
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ June 10, 2005 01:46 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>
yeah fuse!! Change your name!! LOL!! [img]wink.gif[/img]
Gotta go with GAMG and Shedder on this one. VC is da man!! I don't think there's too many guys that have recording nearly every style of music and show absolute profincientcy (spelling) as Vince has.
I think this was dicussed at the dinner table for the Omar Hakim clinic.....
I guess one time Chick Corea was yelling at Vinnie on a gig. I think it was the Electric Band in Japan. Chick had apparently lost where "one" was and was yelling/asking Vince where the downbeat was.
I don't know too many people that could confuse Chick while blowing chops and make him loose his place in time.
Pretty scarey if you ask me. [img]cool.gif[/img]
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